Post #1832B: A footnote on car battery recycling

 

Aside from what I discussed in the just-prior post, my other hesitation in buying a used EV is the eventual need to junk it.  In particular, to get the batteries recycled.

Everybody seems to say, pish-tosh, by the time you’re at that stage, it’ll be easy.  Cheap.  Why, they’ll pay you good money for your clapped-out EV battery.

Me, I’m not so sure.

In the course of researching the just-prior post, I came across this:

Source:  Teslarati

Last I checked, Tesla was only recycling Tesla batteries.  That’s because at this point, it costs quite a bit to recycle a lithium-ion battery.  That’s laid out in Post #1712, The Balkanization of the EV battery recycling market.

So, do the math.  A typical Tesla battery pack is around 1500 pounds.  A metric ton is about 2200 pounds.  So that new factory, hitting this new recycling milestone, is capable of handling (52 x 100 x 2200 / 1500 =~ ) 7,500 dead Tesla battery packs, per year. 

Tesla is selling how many cars, in the U.S., now.  Oh, like half-a-million in 2022, and an even higher rate in 2023.  So, at present, Tesla — which is ahead of the game, as far as I can tell — is set up to recycle … ah, call it 1.5% of the car batteries it is currently producing.

And if you read that article in depth, some of what they are doing is short of actual recycling.  They are “stockpiling for future processing of any materials generated that cannot be immediately processed.”

Sure, you read about the one-off project here and there, where old car batteries are recycled into power walls, or storage for the grid, or whatnot.  And maybe there are areas of the country where such things are so prevalent that people will buy your dead EV batteries.

But around here, near as I can tell, if I want to get rid of a big Li-ion car battery, I’m going to have to pay for the privilege.   And I just have the feeling that EV Li-ion battery recycling, at the same scale as current battery production, is just a bomb waiting to explode.

Post #1832: Loss of performance with aging.

 

Finally, a topic every man can relate to.

I had been under the impression that as an EV ages, it ages gracefully.  It might slowly lose range, for sure, but otherwise, it was the same vehicle it always was.  I didn’t read a lot of chatter about them losing capability, or reliability, as they age.  So the story seems to be that EVs simply age into being reliable used cars, with more limited range than when new.

Maybe that’s true.  Maybe that’s sometimes true.  Maybe that’s true except for the bottom-of-the-market segment that I’m currently shopping.  Maybe that’s pro-EV propaganda.

To cut to the chase:  Size matters.  That’s my conclusion, at any rate.  All other things equal, performance and reliability issues should show up soonest in EVs with the smallest range.  That’s because, for any given maneuver on the road, those EVs draw more power per unit of battery capacity.  Unreliability shows up first during events that use (or produce) a lot of power.

Continue reading Post #1832: Loss of performance with aging.

Post #1830A: Leaf extras-for-stat-nerds

 

The statistically savvy among you might have noticed something odd about the graph at the end of the last post.

When I let unconstrained math (via Excel) determine the best straight-line fit to these data points, it appears to tell me that these cars lost about 4% of battery capacity for every 10K miles.

But …

But what that doesn’t do is guarantee that with zero miles, I predict that you’ll have 100% of original capacity.

And that matters, because it looks like a lot of these cars must have lost a lot of range early on, that is, at low mileage.  And that loss of battery range doesn’t get factored into the 4% per 10K range loss estimate.

So this is a rare instance of a straight-line fit for which you are justified in “setting the intercept” manually, rather than letting an unconstrained least-squares fit to the data do it.  By definition, the line has to pass through zero miles matching 100% of original range.

Look what happens when I do that:

On average, pinning the linear trend to pass through 0 miles = 100% of original range, range loss is more like 8% per 10K miles. 

The whole cluster of dots is quite “low” on that graph, so to speak.  Those cars on average followed a path of losing a lot of range early on.  And having the loss taper off to a mere 4% per year.

My guess is that exponential decay is the line you’d like to fit, for something wasting away.  But I can’t seem to get Excel to give a trend passing through the required point, with the required shape.  So I freehanded what I think the Conventional Wisdom says about the time-path of battery loss.

No matter how you cut it, the actual observed battery loss over this range amounts to much more than 4%/10K miles.  The mid-point of the fitted line sits around a 40% loss over 5K miles.  That’s the 8%/year calculated when the regression line was pinned at 100% capacity at zero miles.


Why the high range losses?  Is this just a market for lemons, or are the dashboard estimates biased?

George Akerlof, economist, once wrote a piece whose title began “The Market for ‘Lemons’: ”  The paper is pretty deep, but the takeaway is pretty simple.  In this case, it boils down to: People sell their cars when those cars are lemons, not when they are peaches.

That’s one obvious explanation of why these losses appear far larger-than-expected.  (Where, lurking in the background is the idea that EVs lose, oh, like two percent a year, maybe, based on looking at a few graphs in the past.)  The point is, maybe most of these cars appear in the used car listings precisely because they had above-average battery capacity losses.  And that’s why their prior owners sold them.  And I’m seeing them.

The other possibility is that the mileage estimated from the dashboard readout is substantially biased downwards.  (I know it has a high variance, as it depends on recent driving style.  Leaf aficionados refer to it as the “guess gauge”.  That should just add noise, not bias, I think.)

There is one element of bias in what I did in my calculation, in that the range bars are each about 8 percent thick.  For example, when I saw four range bars, my calculation assumed the car was (4/12 =) 33% charged.  But if four bars is really just 3.5 bars, on average, then that charge level is actually just a shade over 28%, on average.  I would then triple that error in arriving at 100% of charge, and so end up understating total range by a factor of about 15%.

Adjusting for that  would require multiplying my range estimate by (1/.85 =) about 18%.  The upshot is that what looked like a 60-mile range based on the dashboard could plausibly be a 70-mile range in reality.

That said, I’m not sure this materially changes the situation.  No matter how I slice it, the range of the car I’m interested is far lower than the Recurrent.com estimate that I had been looking at.

Finally, I can’t fully discount that the losses observed in this low-end used car sample are typical of a random sample of Leafs.  But if it were, I doubt there’d be many Leaf fans out there.

On net, I think the explanation is that I’m looking at a market for lemons.  By looking only at the low-cost end of the market, and only looking at what people are trying to sell, I’m probably looking at a fairly biased sample of all Leafs.

Unfortunately, that’s the sample of cars I’m buying from, if I continue down this path.  Perhaps time for a re-think.

Post #1828: Factors affecting the price of a used Nissan Leaf

 

The single biggest way to save money on a used Nissan Leaf?  Don’t buy from Carvana.

That’s what the data say.  Other results are in the RESULTS section below.


Hedonic price function

I didn’t make up the term.  A hedonic price function is the method economists use to parse out the factors that contribute to the market value of an object.

Basically, you take what everybody knows — newer cars cost more, high-mileage cars cost less — and you quantify it.  You calculate a data-based estimate of just how much those factors affect the price of the object in question.

Probably the single most important use of this approach is in the U.S. Consumer Price Index.  That index is no longer a simple average of observed prices for various goods.  That’s because the qualities of the underlying goods keep changing.  Take computers for example.  A new PC is typically far more capable than a ten-year-old PC.  If you simply lump those two together as “PCs”, you ignore the increase in the value of what the consumer is buying.  So, the Bureau of Labor Statistics uses hedonic price estimates to determine how much “better” newer models are, compared to older models, and adjusts the prices of newer models (down) accordingly.  The other way to look at that is that this is how Uncle Sam systematically understates the true rate of inflation.  And, accordingly, saves money on all of its payments linked to inflation, such as Social Security payments.

Practically speaking, I “ran a regression”.  Which is, at root, just an average.  Instead of taking a simple average price, it’s an adjusted average.  It adjusts the average asking price for the factors that you have identified (e.g., age, mileage). 

The nice thing about it is that it gives you the independent effect of each factor.  So, newer used cars also tend to be lower-mileage used cars.  To what extent is their higher price for late-model cars due to low age, versus low mileage?  In theory, a regression parses that out for you.

Regressions, much like the Magic 8 Ball from which they were derived, sometimes give you a non-committal answer.  By that I mean that there’s so little systematic impact of some factor that you can’t really say whether or not you’re just picking up random associations.  The ones above that are egregiously so, I’ve put in faint gray type.  You should ignore any estimates that don’t pass a standard hurdle for “statistical significance” this way.

(I hope it goes without saying that regressions may sometimes give a wrong answer, and may sometimes give a right answer.  Again, much like the Magic 8 Ball.)


Results

By far, the most important factor for saving money on a used Leaf is not to buy it from Carvana Averaged across all the cars in the dataset, buying from Carvana added $3K to the price of the car.  I don’t think that’s news, as I vaguely recall that they had a reputation for being a convenient-but-relatively-costly source for used cars.

But just as interesting are the things that don’t matter.

The trim level or options level had no (statistically significant) effect on the price This, I think, also matches conventional wisdom.  As stated by my mother-in-law: Buy a loaded car because you want to drive a loaded car.  Don’t buy it for the additional resale value, because there isn’t any.  (But keep in mind, the effect of difference in range is accounted for elsewhere, and so differences in battery capacity across trim lines should not, in theory, contribute to the pure effect of the trim level.)

Curiously, history of having been in an accident also did not much matter.  I have no explanation for that, except that maybe most of those aren’t major accidents?

Now we get to the big three:  Year, Mileage, and Range.  To interpret these, you need to know that the average asking price in this dataset was about $15,000.

All other things equal, each year that a used Leaf ages, as a used car, it loses about $900 in value, or about 6% of its value.  See the note below on comparing this to the depreciation of a brand-new Leaf.  It’s lower, but not vastly lower, than the depreciation of a new car.  I think this matches our received folklore about car values.  The fastest reduction in value that you will experience is in the moment you drive your new car off the dealer’s lot.

Mileage hardly matters. Every additional 10K miles on the odometer only drops the value of the car by about $200, or just over 1%.  I think that’s quite  different from what you see with gas cars, and speaks to the robustness of the motors and drive train.  It appears that the typical buyer isn’t concerned with expensive repairs for a fairly high-mileage used Leaf.

Alternatively, these cars may simply have such low average miles, that mileage had not yet begun to matter.  Median mileage was just 36K, median age was about five years.  The low average mileage is a function of both low car age and few miles per year, consistent with a car in which long-distance travel was likely awkward for most.)

Slice that either way you like.  The fact is, odometer miles didn’t much matter.

Oddly, battery range only matters a bit.  This analysis was restricted to models that had an estimate of the actual remaining range, via some remote monitoring service that tests battery life.  Every 10 miles of additional battery range was only worth about $430, or maybe 3%.   I’m guessing that people interested in a used Leaf are probably coming from the same place that I am, in that they plan to use it as a “city car”.  So extra range is nice, but not a deal-breaker, as long as it’ll get you around town for the next few years.

I’m not sure the same would hold true for the price of a new EV, where the typical buyer may want to be able to take long trips in the car.  There, I’d expect to see a higher value on longer range.


Final takeaways.

First, I’m not going to buy from Carvana.  As if I ever were.

Second, on paper, as new cars, Leafs appear to have suffered from shockingly steep depreciation.  So much so that it gave me pause.  How could a car that lost value that quickly be a good buy as a used car?

But I think that’s largely an artifact of the (then) $7500 tax credit.  A person buying a $32500 Leaf actually only paid $25,000 for it, net of the tax credit.  If I factor the tax credit in, depreciation on a new Leaf that appeared to be in excess of 12%/year falls to a far more reasonable 8% per year.  Or just modestly higher than the rate of depreciation shown among the sample of used Leafs.

Third, at the price range I’m considering (~$10K), it probably won’t cost me much to buy the model with the bigger battery/higher range (SV) instead of the base model (S, SL).  The additional 30 miles of range (100 vs 70) ought to cost me just over an additional $1200.  And that additional range should be cheap insurance against the future degradation of the lithium-ion battery.

Finally, as long as the battery is in good shape, I probably shouldn’t worry too much about the mileage.  Or, at least, that’s what the market is telling me.  Buyers seemed to be almost indifferent to the miles on the odometer.  To me, that crowd-sources the conclusion that, battery aside, these cars don’t tend to wear out within the range of mileages typically found for used Leafs.

Epilogue

A wise philospher once said, “You cannot step into the same used-car query twice.”  I thought about adding more information (e.g., Carmax as seller).  But I “keypunched” the cars in the order they showed when I ran my first query.  To get back to those Edmunds.com search results, I’d have to re-run that query.  That could easily give me a slightly different set of cars, depending.  Which means the existing dataset might not synch up with the new data, as punched.  Not without extraordinary measures.

In this case, the juice is not worth the squeeze.  I’ll let this be the end of it.

Post 1826: Used Leaf versus remaining alternatives

 

I’m still working on getting something to replace the car I got rid of a year ago.  For use around town, when it’s inconvenient to borrow my wife’s car.

Bottom line:  By the process of calculatus eliminatus, my best and most realistic option is a well-used Nissan Leaf.  The 30% Federal tax rebate, on the purchase price of this qualifying used EV, is just gravy.

Beyond the items already discussed and dismissed (e-bike, e-motorcycle), the remaining options for local transport in my area seem to be:

  • Used Nissan Leaf
  • Uber or similar
  • Public transportation

In a nutshell, near as I can figure:

  • Used Leaf, convenient, $0.55/mile.
  • Uber, just about as convenient, $4/mile.
  • Public transport, inconvenient, not great in all weather, $1/mile.

Continue reading Post 1826: Used Leaf versus remaining alternatives

Post #1820: Dribs and drabs of Town of Vienna historical data.

 

Today I stumbled across the dollar value of the 1961 Town of Vienna operating budget, in an old Town of Vienna newsletter.  It seemed small to me, even after considering inflation.  So I decided to compare a few key statistics for the Town of Vienna, 1960 (ish) versus 2023 (ish).  And, in fact, it was small.

N.B., one U.S. dollar, in 1960, was worth just over $10, in current (July 2023) currency.  Actual silver coinage (90% silver coins) did not disappear from U.S. circulation until 1964.

Town of Vienna, VA:  2023 versus 1960

Population:  43% increase

  • Per the 1960 Census:  11,500
  • Per the 2020 Census:  16,500

Dwelling units: 100% increase:

  • Per the 1960 Census:  2,750
  • Per the 2020 Census:  5,600 (est).

Persons per household:  26% decrease.

  • Per the 1960 Census:  4.1
  • Circa the 2021 Census:  3.03

N.B. 2 x .74 = 1.48, so even though the data above come from different, independent data sources, the math very nearly reproduces the actual increase in population (44%, not 48%) over the period.

Median house price:  Roughly five-fold increase.

  • Per the 1960 Census: $18,400
  • The 1960 price in 2023 dollars:  $189,000
  • 2023 median (estimated), all houses: $900,000.
  • 2023 median, listed for sale:  $1,030,000

Town of Vienna operating budget:  Roughly 10-fold increase.

  • Per the June 1961 TOV newsletter:  $462,000.
  • The 1960 cost in 2023 dollars:  $4,800,000.
  • The 2023-24 actual cost:  $50,000,000

Most of the operating revenue for the Town comes from real estate taxes.  To reconcile the 10-fold growth in house prices, and the five-fold growth in the cost of government, you have to know that the tax rate per $100 of market value fell by roughly 50% over this period.  In 1961, it was $1.35 per $100, assessed at 32% of market value, or (1.35 x .32 =) 0.42 per $100 of market value.  That, from the June 1961 Town newsletter.  Currently, the rate is just over $0.20 per $100 of market value, per the 2023-24 Town budget.

References:

1960 Census of Population and Housing:  https://usa.ipums.org/usa/voliii/pubdocs/1960/pubvols1960.shtml

2020 Census:  https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/viennatownvirginia/PST045222

Town of Vienna 1961 newsletter:  https://www.viennava.gov/engagement-central/newsroom/vienna-voice-town-newsletter

Town of Vienna operating budget:  https://www.viennava.gov/your-government/town-budget

Inflation calculator:  https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/